[simie]

Milky, I often don't agree with what you say but still like reading your posts. Provides some lively discussion for the board.
Simie.

[Mirkwood]

The longest Thai couple I know in the Uk have been together for 16 years. I have been married to my Thai wife for nearly 14 years and my son to his wife for 10 years now. I agree your advice may well seem reasonable for many of the BMs newbies who visit a board based on bar girls in Pattaya and I am not disputing that , but you go much much futher. In fact your comments are insulting to many of the Thai people I know nothing less.I think all newbies should know that many farangs do find real happiness with Thai partners and many would reject completely your assessment of Thai culture and personality. I certainly do. But I dont blame you as a person, I blame your lack of experience of real Thailand.
Thats quite common with those who come to LOS for sex (or see it as the focus of their stay no matter how long) and have not tried to enhance their knowledge or situation. The fact is many exapts are the worst offenders and the most ignoarnt of real Thai people.

I really do not mean to insult anyone and I accept my views may be a little extreme.

However, you are posting on a Pattaya forum. I think it is highly unlikely anyone will meet a girl in Pattaya and be living in your shoes.
Most who marry will end up with an Issan buffalo and experience the things I'm talking about.

Maybe you should be asking why you have all the problems that you do, rather than just blaming someone for those problems.

Which begs the obvious question. It's certainly different - maybe that's what you can't handle.

Nah, you sound just like you did the week you arrived here.

Sheesh, you maintain that the Thais are all a bunch of thick cunts, but it's you who can't even use the bank or post a fucking letter.

I can use a bank and post a letter thanks.

You know yourself. You can walk into a Thai bank one day and have a near perfect transaction. Go in a day later and it's a different story. Things are not standard here.

Same as posting a letter abroad. Let's be honest you know what it's like here. If you order a full English breakfast and ask to have an extra egg instead of the beans. You will end up with chicken curry.

Again, you are in a fairly unique situation.
Unique as in not how most people on here will end up.

I respect you and your lifestyle. From what I've seen it looks great but again we are on a Pattaya mongers board. Do you really think the average bloke on here, is going to marry Noi he met in the beer bar and end up in the same situation as you?
Not a chance.

[tom]

Originally Posted by Mirkwood

I can use a bank and post a letter thanks.

You previously used both as negative examples of everything that's wrong with Thailand.

You know yourself. You can walk into a Thai bank one day and have a near perfect transaction. Go in a day later and it's a different story.

I can honestly say that I can't recall having had a negative experience in my bank - exactly the opposite. The only issue I've had with banks was when I originally wanted to open an account in BKK and both the Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank in Exchange Tower at Asoke wanted proof of address (work permit) otherwise you had to go to the main branch in Silom. No big deal - I simply went to the Kasikorn next to the Ruamchit Hotel down the road and was done and dusted within 15-20 minutes.

Things are not standard here.

They're not the same as things back home - there's no denying that.

Same as posting a letter abroad. Let's be honest you know what it's like here. If you order a full English breakfast and ask to have an extra egg instead of the beans. You will end up with chicken curry.

I do know what you mean but I'd see the funny side and either eat the curry or have another attempt at ordering what I wanted. It certainly wouldn't faze me at all.

I don't eat too many English breakfasts these days, but I regularly get a banana split in Swensen's. Changing the strawberry and chocolate ice-cream for coffee and mocha has never really been a problem for me.

The point that you're missing is that the fucked-up full English breakfast is likely to be nothing more than the result of a language misunderstanding and, as such, you're likely to be just as much part of that particular problem as the tri-lingual waitress. Maybe you just need to work on that gor gai, kor kai stuff a little bit more.

I don't want to sound as if I'm suggesting everything is perfect in Thailand - it's not. However, citing your inability to order a full English breakfast as evidence of what's wrong with Thailand says more about you than it does the Thais. On the plus side, you're not unique - there are plenty of guys in Pattaya with the same mindset. The guy who penned the OP is one.

[fearules]

Originally Posted by tom

You previously used both as negative examples of everything that's wrong with Thailand.



I can honestly say that I can't recall having had a negative experience in my bank - exactly the opposite. The only issue I've had with banks was when I originally wanted to open an account in BKK and both the Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank in Exchange Tower at Asoke wanted proof of address (work permit) otherwise you had to go to the main branch in Silom. No big deal - I simply went to the Kasikorn next to the Ruamchit Hotel down the road and was done and dusted within 15-20 minutes.



They're not the same as things back home - there's no denying that.



I do know what you mean but I'd see the funny side and either eat the curry or have another attempt at ordering what I wanted. It certainly wouldn't faze me at all.

I don't eat too many English breakfasts these days, but I regularly get a banana split in Swensen's. Changing the strawberry and chocolate ice-cream for coffee and mocha has never really been a problem for me.

The point that you're missing is that the fucked-up full English breakfast is likely to be nothing more than the result of a language misunderstanding and, as such, you're likely to be just as much part of that particular problem as the tri-lingual waitress. Maybe you just need to work on that gor gai, kor kai stuff a little bit more.

I don't want to sound as if I'm suggesting everything is perfect in Thailand - it's not. However, citing your inability to order a full English breakfast as evidence of what's wrong with Thailand says more about you than it does the Thais. On the plus side, you're not unique - there are plenty of guys in Pattaya with the same mindset. The guy who penned the OP is one.

Fully agree with this.
I just wonder what some actually think of women or if its all just a sort of defence mechanism.

[mack]

Very interesting thread, although I get the impression fearules and Mirkwood move in different circles and have had very different experiences in LOS, which of course shaped their attitudes of the people and country.

Anytime someone says or writes, "All (insert whatever you want: bar girls, Thais, blacks, whites, moto-drivers, Mormons, Hells Angles etc.) are no-good, dirty...blah blah..." I figure they don't know what they're talking about or are taking the easy road of generalizing to the extreme (or maybe just having a rough day.) It destroys their argument at the get-go in my mind. Nice, though, to see a difference of opinion without people losing their heads or being reduced to tears.

Originally Posted by tom

I can honestly say that I can't recall having had a negative experience in my bank - exactly the opposite.

I don't beleeb the issue with the bank, where tom sails through but Mirkwood often has problems , is one of attitude or approach, though. It's more basic than that. If you're going to conduct business in LOS, dress appropriately.

Many of us have seen both tom and Mirkwood out and about in ...
tom is professional-looking in slacks and a collared shirt. Mirkwood dresses solely for comfort. But my tip for you, Mr. Mirk, is this: you'll get better service if you dress up a bit more.


Case in point, here's a picture I took of Mirkwood leaving his bank a couple of years ago (not sure what the problem was this time, but whatever it was, it spilled to the outside.):

[fearules]

Originally Posted by Mirkwood

I really do not mean to insult anyone and I accept my views may be a little extreme.

However, you are posting on a Pattaya forum. I think it is highly unlikely anyone will meet a girl in Pattaya and be living in your shoes.
Most who marry will end up with an Issan buffalo and experience the things I'm talking about.


I respect you and your lifestyle. From what I've seen it looks great but again we are on a Pattaya mongers board. Do you really think the average bloke on here, is going to marry Noi he met in the beer bar and end up in the same situation as you?
Not a chance.

I met my wife while diving in Phuket and if I hadnt met her I would have been in the bars like everyone else. She had come down for a week (saved up holiday) to be with a friend who was marrying a dive master. They had fixed her up with his friend as she was a complete anglophile, speaks good English and a Liverpool supporter. She didnt like him as he was young and acted like he was gods gift to women. She sought refuge with me, a lot older and treat girls like they are all gods gift to men.
No one was more surprised than me at how and what happend. I was the right man in the right place at the right time and I wasnt looking for love.

The thing here is you keep talking about a Pattaya forum with the idea that it somehow consists of nothing but hardened sex tourists who will never be anything else.
The facts are quite different.

This is very relvent to newbies. Many men first come to LOS and to Pattaya as they have heard its a great place to party. Sure but after this experience it can go many ways.
They may stay at home and live for the next visit and the same bars.
They may like many do want to know about the real Thailand and not just the P4P scene. They may meet a girl they thing is different and she may well be.
Many girls from LOS try P4P (there are real reasons for this that dont include her being a complete slag).
I know many expats who have settled down with ex bar girls so they are certainly not imune. In fact most of them I know.

Whatever its good to have both sets of opinions on a board like this. You said so yourself now your saying there is rooom for only your opinion and experience (or lack of it). because its a Pattaya mongers board ??

I dont think your giving any newbies the whole story by along way and your extreme views of a whole culture and not condusive to giving real information. Thats my point.
I hope posts like mine and others address the balance.

The fact is newbies really do need to be careful as you imply, but treating all Thai's like shit (even your Gf it seems) is not the way to enjoy your time in LOS. Far from it.

[Mirkwood]

OK, I'm all done bitching. This is for fun now.

Can I use a bank?

Well I thought I could so today I went to one to pay my credit card.

Here is a blow by blow account of what happened.

Drove car to Changwattana Road. My bank has a large branch there. I do not trust the small sub branches and have experienced nightmares nearly everytime I have used them.

Anyway, traffic was so so and I arrived after about 30 minutes in car.

Strike one.

I put my ATM card in the machine to check the balance.
It was all going fine and I got the please wait message. The balance didn't come up. I waited and waited. After what seemed an age my card came out with a timed out message on the screen. I had a confused look on my face.

I tried again.

The same.

Now in UK I can just take my ATM card inside the bank and they transfer funds. I could pay my card off like this. However this is Thailand. I have been told on numerous occasions that payment must be in cash even though my credit card is with the same bank. I have to draw cash out then pay it back in same bank.

OK, I give up on the ATM card. I go back to my car and get my bank book. My plan is to update that in the machine next to the ATM one.

When I get back all 3 machines are out of order.

I go inside the bank and get told the computor has gone down and I have to go to another branch. Nearest one is about 20 minutes further up Changwattana in Central shopping mall.

OK, I'm still calm and decide that's good for me as I want to go in Marks and Sparks for some Tea bags anyway.

I drive to Cental and have a nightmare parking. For some reason they have blocked off all the lower levels and I end up on the top level. Great.

I walk down to the mall then take 4 different escalators until I reach my bank.

I put my book in. It spits it out. I try again. Bingo.

I'm feeling all happy until I check the balance.

My salary hasn't gone in.

Yes, it's finally got me. I'm a broken man. All that for nothing. I'm miles away from home as well.

I ring up the Bangkok branch of my works and get told in a giggling voice ' Oh sorry, we have new trainee she make mistake because you know Songkran have holiday?'

I just drive home......

[tom]

Originally Posted by Mirkwood

OK, I'm all done bitching. This is for fun now ...

It's karma, mate.

At the end of the day, all that happened was the bank's computers were temporarily down. First day back after a one week holiday, so no great surprise. Believe it or not, it happens in the UK. Regularly.

Your parking, escalator and salary problems had nothing whatsoever to do with the bank.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Mirkwood

OK, I'm all done bitching. This is for fun now.

Can I use a bank?

Well I thought I could so today I went to one to pay my credit card.

Here is a blow by blow account of what happened.

Drove car to Changwattana Road. My bank has a large branch there. I do not trust the small sub branches and have experienced nightmares nearly everytime I have used them.

Anyway, traffic was so so and I arrived after about 30 minutes in car.

Strike one.

I put my ATM card in the machine to check the balance.
It was all going fine and I got the please wait message. The balance didn't come up. I waited and waited. After what seemed an age my card came out with a timed out message on the screen. I had a confused look on my face.

I tried again.

The same.

Now in UK I can just take my ATM card inside the bank and they transfer funds. I could pay my card off like this. However this is Thailand. I have been told on numerous occasions that payment must be in cash even though my credit card is with the same bank. I have to draw cash out then pay it back in same bank.

OK, I give up on the ATM card. I go back to my car and get my bank book. My plan is to update that in the machine next to the ATM one.

When I get back all 3 machines are out of order.

I go inside the bank and get told the computor has gone down and I have to go to another branch. Nearest one is about 20 minutes further up Changwattana in Central shopping mall.

OK, I'm still calm and decide that's good for me as I want to go in Marks and Sparks for some Tea bags anyway.

I drive to Cental and have a nightmare parking. For some reason they have blocked off all the lower levels and I end up on the top level. Great.

I walk down to the mall then take 4 different escalators until I reach my bank.

I put my book in. It spits it out. I try again. Bingo.

I'm feeling all happy until I check the balance.

My salary hasn't gone in.

Yes, it's finally got me. I'm a broken man. All that for nothing. I'm miles away from home as well.

I ring up the Bangkok branch of my works and get told in a giggling voice ' Oh sorry, we have new trainee she make mistake because you know Songkran have holiday?'

I just drive home......

Yeah, cos that'd never happen in the UK or Europe or anywhere.....

Tried booking our rail tickets for the holiday last night. Booked the first 2 fine, tried to book the 3rd, card declined. I'd kind of expected it as foreign payments within a day or so of a domestic transaction tend to freak out most UK banks these days.

Called the bank, spoke to 3 different people and eventually got them to lift the block on the card. Tried booking again, nothing. And again. And again. Rang the bank a second time, only took 2 people this time to assure me that the block had been lifted and everything should be ok with my card, maybe it's the website I'm using to book that's having a problem. Gave up in the end as it was gone 11:30 and I needed to get to sleep.

Straight onto the website this morning and tried running through the booking again....Internal server error...Please close your browser and try again...fair enough, frustrating but these things happen, started it all again. Got throughh to the clicksafe stuff to verify the payment....payment rejected...tried again, payment rejected, 3rd time, same outcome.

Right, on the phone to the bank again, card isn't blocked, checked the payments and the first one had gone through - I presume the failures after that were to prevent double bookings as I was booking the same train at the same time for the same named passengers. Nothing the bank could do, payment was accepted so contact the supplier. Great, my bank account over £200 lighter and no ticket so it's a phonecall to Amsterdam.

Spoke to a lady there, couldn't find anything for the amount I'd quoted going through in my name, could I check with the bank and get some further details.

Got the bank on speed dial by now so straight through the automated system barking out the numbers to be connected to different areas as I know the lot off the top of my head. Passed from pillar to post in the bank until someone can give me the details I need.

Back on the phone to Holland and after 20 minutes digging around in the system it's all sorted out and I get the tickets emailed to me.......over 13 hours after I started trying to book.

Pain in the arse? Yes.
Do I hold the whole of the UK in contempt because I had a problem with a financial transaction? No.
Do I think the Dutch are all out to wind me up and piss me off? Of course not.
Do I blame the gobal banking system even? No. People take modern conveniences for granted, modern banking is an incredibly complex system and most forget this was all paper-based 30 odd years ago and it'd take 2 weeks and a letter in writing just to check what had gone out of your account for a given week!

Another thing to note, the whole of this saga went a lot easier by being polite and courteous to the people in the bank I spoke to and the people at the rail office in Holland. If I'd gone in with the attitude that they were all lazy idiots out to stitch me up I'd have been pissing into the wind from the get-go. This seems to hold moreso in Thailand than anywhere else. I've queued behind some bloke shouting the odds and ranting at staff only to see him pretty much igored and then I've politely asked for something or pointed out something wasn't working and had the staff falling over themselves to help. I've also had it the other way around when I've lost my rag and been banging the counter and yelling an it's done me no good at all.

I reckon a good 90% of your problems with Thais is of your own making and comes from your attitude towards them. Even if you're keeping your cool when things aren't woking out for you if your demeanor and attitude is that the whole country are out to get you then that's going to show through and colour the treatment you recieve.

[monkeyspanker]

i used to feel sorry for myself until you started, now i realise just how lucky i am.
sucks to be you!!!

saying that Natwest fraud called sat, unusual activity on my card, and was it ok?

Should be i say, i have had the same payment on the same day for over 3 years but nice you have finally noticed!

Just hung up and hope my atm card still works, i have the fraud number stored on speed dial.
At least you got to speak to a local, i got some muppet in a call centre fuck knows where.